Armond White, the controversial film critic for the New York Press, is back in the news. Not for trashing another popular movie like 'Toy Story 3,' but for trashing the best-known and perhaps most popular critic in the business, Roger Ebert.White told reporters for the movie website SlashFilm that through the thumbs-up/thumbs-down edicts that Ebert and the late Gene Siskel expressed on their syndicated TV show, that "It is fair to say that Roger Ebert destroyed film criticism."
White also said that when Ebert became a critic for the Chicago Sun-Times in 1967 he didn't have the knowledge or foundation for that job. "I'm a pedigreed film critic," White said. "I've studied it. I know it. Ebert just simply happened to have the job ... He does not have the foundation."
Given their relative readerships and reputations, we could dismiss White's comment as a gnat biting an elephant on the ass, just as we should dismiss as a cheap shot, Ebert's description of White as an Internet "troll." But let's not dismiss the volleys; let's use them as an opportunity to discuss the two schools of film criticism. No one represents elitism better than White, and no one represents populism better than Ebert.
The critics may quibble over those labels, but for this discussion, an elitist is a critic who believes his primary responsibility is to educate readers so they may better understand the film medium while a populist, using his knowledge and tastes, sets out to explain his responses to films. One assumes the voice of authority, the other assumes the voice of a confidant.
White is a classic, unapologetic elitist and one of the few to ever work for a general interest or mainstream publication. For good reason: As White's editors are being constantly reminded, the inherent insult to readers' intelligence by White's approach is risky business. His haughty, theoretical approach is the stuff of academia and film journals.On the other extreme, there couldn't be a greater symbol of populism than a thumb being aimed up or down in judgment. If all popular criticism followed that example, White would be right in saying that Ebert destroyed film criticism. A simple up or down vote on any subjective issue obliterates all nuance, which is the essence of criticism.
But that thumb was a gimmick for a syndicated TV show, and I don't think many people who watched Siskel and Ebert depended on the compass headings of their thumbs in deciding which movies to see. I would argue -- and I did argue during their show's halcyon days -- that Siskel and Ebert imparted more critical thought into the brief time they had on the show than one would have thought possible. Their uniqueness has been proved by the failure of every other critic team that has tried to duplicate their formula.
White's major bone of contention is that the rabbit-quick proliferation of amateur critics on the Internet, something Ebert has praised and encouraged, has created a critical white noise so loud it drowns out the voices of the professionals still grinding out thoughtful analysis at newspapers and magazines. Roger has more time than God if he's actually reading much of that stuff, but it's not his fault it's out there.
As I said in an earlier post, I know and like Armond, and his contrary views are useful in that they make you defend your own opinion. What really distances him from the great majority of both critics and movie fans is a purist sentiment that is utterly naive. He and I were discussing Baz Luhrmann's 'Moulin Rouge' on a film panel when it came out in 2001 and he said it was ruined by the casting of non-musical actors Nicole Kidman and Ewan McGregor, and that they should have used unknowns who could sing and dance.
"A studio is not going to invest $100 million in a musical with no stars," I said."They should," he responded.
So, Armond is a critic in a world of cinema that does not exist, except in the margins of independent and avant garde film; and Ebert is a critic for all seasons. Who're you going to call?
Whenever I've been asked to discuss the tools of criticism, I've gone to the analogy of the three-legged stool. One leg is knowledge, one is taste and the third is the skill to combine and communicate the first two to an audience. Armond, who has a Master of Fine Arts degree from Columbia University, does have knowledge, that formal foundation he rests his reputation on, and he is a compelling, if antagonistic writer. But his tastes? How shall we say, unfathomable?
Contrary to White's most outrageous criticism of Ebert, Roger has stores of knowledge and a fluid, conversational writing style that has the effect on readers of received wisdom. His flaw, in the eyes of other critics, is his admitted inclination to review popular -- i.e., formulaic -- Hollywood movies for their intended audiences. That may be helpful for those eager consumers of multiplex pap, but it necessitates compromise, and compromise erodes credibility.
Nonetheless, Ebert's reputation is as untouchable as that of fellow Chicagoan Elliot Ness; and in attacking him personally, White has started a fight that he cannot win. The only question is whether Ebert will take the bait or -- like that elephant being assaulted by a gnat -- even feel the bite.


Reader Comments (30)
100k at 8:00PM on Jul 21st 2010
this isn't even a contest. ebert is legit and white is the shock jock of the film critic world - he's the rush limbaugh of film critique, constantly trying to say something more controversial than the last crap he spouted just to get attention. nobody would even know who he was if he didn't spout his innanities.
Josef at 8:20PM on Jul 21st 2010
Wow, did you even read this article before babbling a response? Obviously not.
I have found Armond's reviews useful many times as a counterpoint to make me think. And I have frequently been grossed out by Ebert's populism and love of what I see as crap. People who want to look at this as a black and white issue are revealing their own lack of knowledge.
I don't think even elitist vs. populist describes them correctly. Armond is not just an elitist, he is a student of Kael and Parker Tyler, his reviews are actually deeply personal reactions, filtered through his intellect. He struggles to understand watching of films as a personal as well as political journey and wants us all to do the same- to get as much out of, and put as much into, the process of experiencing films. It just so happens that his tastes are not at all mainstream. I think he and Ebert have more in common than they think they do.
Kanoa at 8:43PM on Jul 21st 2010
I don't disagree with 100k and I think your tone is childish. White's style of writing is so incredibly holier than thou it's naturally going attract negative attention. But attention is attention and a lot of times people in this business take their schtick to an extreme when they get some kind of reaction.
Movies are for people. All kinds of people. If all kinds of people didn't go see and enjoy them, we wouldn't have the industry behemoth we do. Critics like Armond White think their personal opinions are infallible and anyone who thinks differently is clearly just an uneducated idiot. I have no problem disagreeing with someone, and I love reading film analyses by people with that kind of rich understanding of history and theory, but when I feel like the writer is directly insulting me at every opportunity I feel like a) there is something fishy behind that extreme nature and b) the guy is a bad critic who has lost site of what the vast majority of films out there are meant for: to be enjoyed.
100k at 9:22PM on Jul 21st 2010
film is meant to be enjoyed, Josef - not wrapped into some pedantic,
self-important pretzel.
i honestly didn't discuss the article at all because i actually disagree with its entire premise and didn't feel like getting into it. you see, as an artist my whole life, i've always found the idea that anybody can be "qualified" as an art critic completely ludicrous. being an artist is a job like any other - and appreciation for art is subjective, so either as a potential audience or participant one is able to find a critic with whom or they're not. getting tips regarding whether one should see something or not is the only purpose to the entire occupation. the rest is masturbation IMHO. and it's a wonder Armond White isn't blind as a bat!
in fact, as one-time owner of
armondwhiteisadouchebag.com (i recently let it go because i didn't
feel like giving this ridiculous joke of a critic even a single iota
more attention than he already had) i've been following him for quite
a while. ebert on the other hand has been he one film critic i've read
that i've read since i was a child. but even though i've often
disagreed with ebert, at least he treats it like an art and not some
ridiculous literary exercise with rules only the learned and genius
(even if entirely unpracticed) could ever understand.
i boil the differences between the two critics down to things: Armond
White is a HUGE and consistent Michael Bay fan - so much better than
Nolan for instance - and just as consistently trashes everything by
Pixar - while Ebert recently said something as antithetical to the
whole film critic world as this: "The one thing you can never be
wrong about is your own opinion." and that is all i have to say about
the matter.
btw Josef, if you've ever made a film, i'd love to see it. seriously.
please send links. my most recent short can be followed at
carefullydescendingDOTcom - please reciprocate. i'd be fascinated to
see what kind of art you yourself make.
100k at 9:23AM on Jul 22nd 2010
yeesh - pardon all the typos.
corrections to the above post:
P2:
* ...find a critic with whom THEY AGREE or they're not.
P3:
* ... been THE one film critic i've read since i was a child. [Deleted extra 'that i've read']
P4:
* ... consistent Michael Bay fan - WHOM HE SAYS IS so much better ...
there are even a few other things that i might have argued in a slightly different manner given the time and energy, but ... whatevs - the these were the ones that were bugging me the most and i got a life to get back to believe it or not.
Dale (PopBunker.net) at 8:05PM on Jul 21st 2010
White certainly started the low class stuff, but Ebert did discuss White first an, frankly, handed him his ass. Ebert's criticism of White classically deconstructs White's knee-jerk and unreferenced reactions to films and compares them to another critics well reasoned and referenced similar thoughts.
It's a great blog entry: http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/07/the_myth_of_a_perfect_film.html
Kanoa at 8:13PM on Jul 21st 2010
I am on the side of thoughtful encouragement and honesty (i.e. Ebert). I can't remember the last time, if there has ever been a time I made it through one of White's reviews without bursting in to laughter. How that man can be so unbelievably condescending while at the same time mooning over Michael Bay is beyond ridiculous.
Yes- he is studied. He knows his stuff. Lots of references, and big big words. But it doesn't mean he has taste.
I can't help but also be reminded of Emerson- “Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying.” I have a feeling even if I did agree with some of his opinions, I wouldn't notice.
petrilli at 8:08PM on Jul 21st 2010
It seems to me that Roger writes for his readers, and himself, whereas White writes only to satiate his own pompous ego and further convince himself that he's better than everyone else.
Travis McClain at 8:17PM on Jul 21st 2010
As I posted on Mr. Ebert's journal about the subject, I have a bachelor's degree in history and know firsthand the kind of aggravation that comes with having people who lack your background in a subject argue it with you. In that regard, I appreciate very much why Mr. White would be incensed by the proliferation of "unqualified" critics. And he's also right that, too often, discussion about not just movies but nearly any topic these days is reductive to a "fail" condemnation or "ftw" endorsement.
That said, I disagree that Ebert is at fault. Mr. White was likely oblivious to the opinions of common folk prior to the Internet, insulated as he appears to be in his ivory tower, but the kind of conversations that he scorns online have always existed among movie-goers. He just hasn't adapted to having his bubble burst, and that's what this spat is about.
team ebert at 8:34PM on Jul 21st 2010
Even though I may not always agree with ebert (I loved the movie Kick ASs, and video games can be art sometimes, just look at a final fantasy game), I honestly prefer him and his style to Armond White, who is nothing but a pompus and egotistical ass. Plus, toy story 3 was an amazing movie
Nick at 1:06AM on Jul 22nd 2010
I read both Ebert and White's reviews of Inception, and Ebert's column on reviewing, in response to this whole brouhaha. I found both reviews interesting and compelling.
The academically-trained, elitist cultural studies professional in me responded positively to a lot of what White had to say about "pop-culture addiction" and the way in which the whiz-bangery and cynicism of the movie and its characters distracts from real issues of how class and capital (and power) work.
I always find Ebert's heartfelt and honest engagement with films appealing. Ebert is one of my touchstones for talking and thinking about films.
So I find myself surprised to admit that I found White's review more appealing. I suppose I will have to wait to see the movie before saying which review was "better" or "more correct."
The truth is, of course, that both reviews were intelligent and helpful, and so I find this whole argument bizarre. It seems like White instigated it by attacking Ebert - which just seems weird and stupid to me, if true. I agree with what I've read of White's general remarks about the deplorable state of much (most) of what passes for commentary on film. It may be true that Ebert's thumbs up contributed to the rise of that kind of criticism, but I don't think that is really fair to lay on Ebert.
He did what he did at a different time, and his reviews were incredibly sensible and nuanced - and if they came down in the end to a thumbs up or thumbs down, I always thought the most important part of them was how they got there. And he was good to a lot of movies that needed someone sensible to say to audiences, "hey, this movie is really good - check it out."
The fact that now we have things like instant ratings meters and numbers on IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes can't be laid at Ebert's door.
Smart critics with useful things to say - like Ebert and White - should be cooperating in attacking those stupid meters and review sites, and all the dreck movie reviewers responsible for stupid tag lines telling us how wonderful some terrible movie is.
For White to attack Ebert... That just seems stupid. For us to be talking about it so much... It actually makes me think of Inception - a dream has been created which is generating lots and lots of traffic/content/money for a few websites. For very little effect or value.
I also tend to find him very smart about film history and film craft.
100k at 2:55AM on Jul 22nd 2010
white CAN occasionally make a good point and then two seconds later contradict it - i'm tell you: the guy is an effing shock jock. check out his body of "critique" before you assume his occasional good point is valid. he himself will contradict that "valid" point in the most infuriating, stupid and pedantic way in his very next review. trust me. look a little deeper - just so you can see how irrelevant and untrustworthy he is. the only reason anybody knows his name is because he will always, ALWAYS root for tripe, crap and idiotic over quality. always.
Nick at 3:26AM on Jul 22nd 2010
Perhaps, perhaps. I read a few more of his reviews and I found them... uneven. It was interesting to compare White's review of "The Kids Are Alright" with Ebert's. I haven't seen that movie yet, either, but what I know of it and of the director's other work suggested that White might be onto something in the criticisms he made.
It's interesting to me that much of what White writes is in the vein of what we might call "ideological critique." He talks about the ways the movies enact covers and excuses for status quo ideology. And then he goes and writes what was to my mind a very incoherent critique of "Salt" - the new spy thriller with Angelina Jolie - that seems to be complaining it is liberal and anti-American. It's things like that - trashing Kids for its feel good message about lesbian moms and Salt for being anti-American that make me think there might be something to this charge of him being intentionally provocative.
But I do value ideological critique - and it is certainly the sort of thing we learn to do be "trained" as film critics, something he talks about in the attack on Ebert. I'm not sure how good he is at it - not so much the "ideology" part (though the "Salt" review raised some questions there for me) as simply the writing of them. I won't nitpick the typos - that's too close to the picking on films for continuity errors that he also attacks in his diatribe against Ebert et al. But the writing isn't as lucid, the lines of argument not as clean as I might like. His reviews seem... throw together, hasty, first drafts of things that need to be longer and reworked a couple of times.
Which is where his attack on Ebert for just "doing it" for the last few decades looks pretty weak. One thing you get by writing reviews for a general audience as long as Ebert has: you get good at it.
Nick at 3:30AM on Jul 22nd 2010
One thing I forgot to get out there: what I find interesting about the attacks on White is that he does write from a very intellectually informed place and he does write ideological critique.
So attacks on him, criticisms on him, fit in very comfortably with the general anti-intellectualism and discomfort with talk of ideology (or as one of my teachers put it, the inability of Americans to spell "bourgeoisie"). Very... convenient.
As for charges of elitism - what is more an elitist position? Putting out intellectually dense and demanding stuff in a general newspaper? Or thinking that that kind of material is inappropriate for a general newspaper?
100k at 10:15AM on Jul 22nd 2010
you know, the truth is that i've always had a strong and deep-seated hatred of the art critique world in its entirety. i've just never understood the purpose of talking about art in a way that doesn't lead to the creation of more and better art. while i agree that parts of our culture are trending dangerously close to anti-intellectualism - especially when it comes to politics and the news media - , i simply don't see the point of over-intellectualizing art. and i definitely have a hard time trusting "critics" who've never actually created something themselves.
ebert, turan and a handful of other critics however seem to see something that Dave Cable just addressed (which incidentally is urging me to re-think my prejudice against all critics right now) in his comments below. they seem to see that there are films that should be considered art and that there are films that should be considered escape.
escape is important sometimes. in my life i probably watch a tiny bit more to escape than to absorb as art, but i know what i'm doing when i do it. and i guarantee you that most other people do as well. shakespeare wrote for both and IMHO the very best artists do the same.
the bottom line is this: ebert writes a review and about 75-80% of the time i'll agree on the most important point: whether or not its worth seeing at all. white writes a review, and that percentage actually goes up substantially ... but in the completely OPPOSITE direction. he likes something, i hate it. he hates it, i like it - perhaps even love it.
... and the fact that his is consistently the very first bad review of any excellent or really good film on Rotten Tomatoes is the ONLY reason we're talking about him at all right now. he's attained a notoriety for doing just that and that's why i call him the rush limbaugh of the film critique world. he's trying to get a rise out of people and that's his only purpose. i mean, i'm totally falling for it right now - i know - but it's with the hope that people will finally see through his BS and stop treating him like a "real" critic.
rush limbaugh, michael savage and anne coulter deep down know what they are - even if the people that love them don't. i argue that white does as well. that's its calculated and that it's gained him readership and spotlight that he never would have attained otherwise. and whatever - bravo, white. if that's the game you want to play, play it.
but i'm not about to just sit back and let people get sucked in.
Greg Howard at 10:40PM on Jul 24th 2010
@Nick
Pardon the interruption, but you seem to be making an error that is central to the discussion: You keep saying you read reviews that you discuss, but without ever having seen the film being reviewed.
Speaking about how "reasoned" or "intelligent" a review seems to you when you have not seen the movie is a waste of my time. I know a number of well-meaning folk who can (and do) write opinions & criticism that read very well... intelligent, thoughtful, reasoned... until you actually look at the object or concept under discussion. Then much of it demonstrates no actual connection to, or undrestanding of, what it is they write about.
Although I dislike his smarter-than-thou attitude, as an excercise in intellectual discipline I read a dozen of Armond White's reviews, limiting them to those films I had actually seen. I found that although Armond certainly can provoke me to think about certain aspects of films I've seen in a slightly different manner, he is too often sidetracked by issues he defines as objective "facts" that are nothing of the sort.
My biggest complaint about Mr. White is simple: His insistence that a mjority of filmgoers are imbeciles, and that Armond knows best, not only exceeds the bounds of elitism, it wanders into fanatacism.
I thoroughly enjoed "At The Movies" with Siskel & Ebert for many reasons, not least of which was their obvious love of film, combined with their willingness to take a position and defend it with intelligence and enthusiasm. I, like many others, felt that Gene often was more "cerebral", more reasoned in his criticism, while Roger was more willing to grant films that were flawed, but emotionally affecting, the benfit of the doubt. But neither of them was locked into a single critical "style".
Roger occasionally flummoxed me with his references to film history and technique, while Gene was not above summarizing his critque with that slim smile of his, and the words "I liked it."
Armond White is certainly passionate about film, but to this day I am wary of the source of his passion. It strikes me that Armond is more concerned with his place in history, with his intellectual status, and with his celebrity than he is with the nature of the medium, its rich history, and its effect on, and value to, us, the audience.
When you add in his combative style, his objective errors, and his seeming disdain for his audience, I cannot but return to my behavior of a year ago... I ignore Mr. White's reviews and opinions as completely and as thoroughly as possible.
xcvb at 9:49PM on Jul 21st 2010
Ebert is not lacking in knowledge. White is not lacking in integrity. That's just the lazy boilerplate on both critics.
The problem with Ebert is that's he too nice for his own good. When push-comes-to-shove he'll give an okay, but popular film a good review just to be a crowd pleaser. White, on the other hand, is too principled for his own good. When push-comes-to-shove he'll give an okay, but popular film a terrible review just to make a teaching point on Hollywood's (and the "mainstream" art film world's) general cruddiness.
James Blight at 10:43PM on Jul 21st 2010
Ebert also has a wonderful quality in that he ties film criticism to life. After all, as McKee says, what else is Story a metaphor for?
Without piety or obstinacy, he tries to teach (in the best sense of the word – a teacher whose pride is more in the exchange of wisdom than in its possession) that, yes, it is indeed time that affects his view of the world differently than children of our era, but this isn’t generational – it’s just age. Time has honed his perspective on many things, not diluted it, and best of all, he feels we are all on that journey. When a fallow youth goes on his blog to defend Transformers 2, you can also feel Ebert smile, patient and without smugness, knowing that all he has to do is make sure the kid continues to care about movies, and is willing to go to other people to talk about them. Time will work the rest out.
Ebert and White may have their defenders as film critics, but what I prefer about Ebert is that he s to talk about what it means in this world to be a man.
James Blight at 10:47PM on Jul 21st 2010
To fix typo:
Ebert and White may have their defenders as film critics, but what I prefer about Ebert is that he talks about what it means in this world to be a man.
freewill at 2:33AM on Jul 22nd 2010
Roger Ebert reviews films for their intended audiences, the movie-going public. Even if this guy White puts down the "thumbs-up/thumbs-down" gimmck, he misses the forest for the trees: the "thumbs" might just be generic, but most people at least took the time to listen for a minute to the rationalizations Siskel & Ebert put forth regarding the simple judgment. Who wants to listen to some overly-educated-but-still-quite-stupid hack go into the sociological implications or technically complicated criticism of some film when all we want to know is if WE would like it? That's the difference between White and Ebert: Roger at least writes for us, to help us make reasonable decisions as to whether we'd be entertained by (whatever kind of) Hollywood product. White just wants to hear himself talk, and doesn't give a rat's you-know-what if anyone else can understand him. His attitude of "How dare the great unwashed seek out opinions that aren't as educated in film-as-art as mine?" is tedious, didactic and wrong, effete snobbery at its arrogant worst.